Wed, 25 July 2007
Episode # 26 of THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID finds Matt and Kevin firing up the flux capacitor for a trip to the very beginning of time. What's this? A documentary about a local paper manufacturing company? That'll never work! Herein then, lies the origin story of our favorite brit-com turned sitcom. Who was there from the beginning? Who gets their office supplies dunked in jello? What, exactly, DOES Roy have in that bag? And why do I feel like I've seen this all somewhere before? Incidental music provided by the Podshow Podsafe Music Network. Email us at TWSSpodcast @ gmail.com, or leave a comment on our blog page at thatswhatshesaid. libsyn.com. iTunes reviews are always appreciated! Help spread the word!
Comments[36]
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Matt, this is a great podcast, and has really helped with the lack of new The Office episodes. I\'ve been listening to \"That\'s What She Said\" essentially nonstop since the beginning of January, and just finished this episode. I think I\'m going to miss the intrepid Ian Casselberry (sp). One thing that I haven\'t seen in this thread: Although a general preference for the American version, and a particular \"dislike\" for David Brent comes through in this podcast, I\'ve noticed that the episodes of the American \"The Office\" that garnered the highest praise are the ones that more closely mirror the British version. The episodes that stay true to that documentary feel, as opposed to the ones that are like a sitcom-looking-like-a-documentary (if that makes any sense). And the ones where Michael Scott calls everyone into the conference room to hold forth on a topic which, while he somehow instinctually knows is important and should be addressed (and especially some that aren\'t), he just doesn\'t have the requisite knowledge to speak authoritatively about, those are the episodes that seemed to be best received by you guys, yet are most closely keeping in (what I think is) the spirit of \"The Office.\" I understand from this thread that you haven\'t seen all of the British version, and I\'ll overlook that. Just an interesting (to me) take on the differences between the two versions I thought I\'d bring up.
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Ian, I forgot about the whole \"Coupling\" débacle. Blech. I have to say that the \"LOST\" pilot blew me away. I\'d decided to check it out because Dominic Monaghan was in it and stuck around because the pilot was awesome. I almost forgot I was watching for Dominic -- and _that_ is saying something. :) Drew, I\'ve been re-listening to the podcast, and I honestly don\'t think either Matt or Kevin were really that harsh on Tim -- they simply stated the differences between the two of them and decided they preferred the Jim character. As for me, I\'m an Anglophile, so I\'ll usually take the Brit any day (with a few exceptions, of course) but I completely understand how an American audience would connect with Jim a bit more. I think Jim has had A LOT more time to develop than Tim ever did, but Martin Freeman did a great job and by the time you watch the Holiday Special Tim seems almost faultless. They are essentially the same character, though, with mainly cultral differences, if you ask me. Matt, you should watch the rest of the UK version. It\'s really good. :)
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Actually it\'d be really fun if you did a retro Podcast for each of the two seasons of the UK show (they\'re only 6 episodes each) so that you\'re not doing tons of recording, just reflecting on the differences in character development and story progression. And then maybe a third one for the UK Christmas Special that acted as the finale. Just a thought. :) Actually, Melonie, my comment about negative Tim comments was directed just toward this discussion and the podcast in general. But yeah, looking back it\'s not that there were very many. The fact that there were any at all was kind of annoying - I love that character!
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One of the reasons the pilot was so unappealing to me is that NBC had just tried to adapt another British sitcom, \\\"Coupling.\\\" The first couple of episodes (if not more) were virtual scene-for-scene adaptations, and the thing became a disaster. So when \\\"The Office\\\" looked like it might start out the same way, it wasn\\\'t looking good. Fortunately, however, they quickly broke out of the UK mold. But I also think you could look at the pilot episodes of most series and be underwhelmed. The burden is to introduce characters and maybe establish a couple of story ideas, rather than making one good episode of television. Off the top of my head, the only pilots I ever recall really being impressed by were \\\"ER\\\" and \\\"Smallville.\\\"
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one of the biggest difference between Uk and US pilots is how disimilar Tim and Jim are. Jim is this kind of cool, laid back guy that seems to have an easy time getting the girls and everyone likes (minus dwight). While Tim is this kind of dorky guy that lives with his parents at the age of 30 and just isnt really impressive, although still very nice. This just adds to the general prefence towards the US version.
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All these negative comments toward Tim kind of bother me. The characters of Tim and Jim aren\\\'t that dissimilar. Sure, Tim does still live with his parents at age 30, but he\\\'s still well liked by his co-workers, and he gets a girlfriend for the majority of the second season. The difference in characters is purely inferred via the difference in physical attractiveness of the actors. The writing is pretty much the same.
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Me again. I should really learn to take notes while I\'m listening. I was thinking about the fact that The Office wasn\'t hugely popular until season 2 and I wondered if most of the country felt the way Matt and Kevin did about the pilot and that is why? Do you think people would have stuck with it if they hadn\'t remade (essentially) the UK pilot, but made one that was entirely different? Or do we, in hind sight, need the pilot as a way to connect the show to its roots? Just wondering . . .
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I do think that having a pilot that is very similar to the UK version isn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t an awful idea... in hindsight. Knowing now that the show would go on to be very successful, I\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'m okay knowing that the pilot touched base with the original UK version. At the time, however, I thought the pilot was a ghastly mistake that would be the largest contributor to the show only lasting 6 episodes. When it was renewed, I was shocked. Like I said above, many of my friends who had seen the UK version were immediately turned off by the pilot. In some cases, I convinced them to watch a few more episodes that season and they started to warm a bit, but in other cases, they didn\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t start watching until the middle of season two, when the buzz started to grow.
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My goodness! I\'m out of town for a week and all sorts of crazy things start happening. (I\'m out of it for a little while and everyone starts getting delusions of grandeur. Sorry, couldn\'t resist a little SW humor. . .) Looking forward to listening to the new podcast and I LOVE both the countdown clock and the dealie-that-I-can\'t-think-what-it\'s-called-but-when-you-push-the-button-the-podcast-plays. Anyway, will post again soon with comments on the podcast, I\'m sure!
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Love the new podcast. Thanks, guys! And yes, I\'m with Brettson: it is jarring to see Ian\'s photo taken down, but the improvements to the website rock. By the way, did anyone ever figure out who the hottie is kissing Matt\'s cheek on the photo of \"the host.\" Do we have a silent host(ess) we haven\'t heard from yet? The brains behind the brawn? Behind every great podcaster is..... (TWSS)
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FABULOUS podcast, guys. I enjoyed hearing the clips from both versions side by side. I got hooked on the American version and then watched the British version last summer while waiting for season 3. I\\\'m a HUGE fan of anything British -- I usually prefer them -- but I think in the case of this show, you\\\'re absolutely right. It was hard to accept the UK version (even though I knew it was the first) after I\\\'d fallen in love with the US characters. Also, I ended up fast forwarding most of David Brent\\\'s scenes because he was just way too mean. Even I couldn\\\'t handle it. I do have to say that I love Martin Freeman, though. When I realized it was \\\"the guy from Hitchhikers!\\\" I nearly fell on the floor. Same with Mackenzie Crook (\\\"OMG he\\\'s in Pirates!\\\") but it really took no time at all to disconnect myself from those references. I found it was easier to completely dislike Gareth as opposed to Dwight who I generally don\\\'t hate, but love to laugh at. Umm, I think I\\\'m going to stop because my thoughts are wholly disjointed right now. Ph Emma, I LOVE Newsradio! I recently purchased seasons 1 - 4 (waiting for 5 to go on sale) I love that Jimmy James is NEVER working. ha ha. Good show. . .
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Thanks for another great podcast! I’m leaving my job in August (not due to downsizing, post-it note theft, or any other corporate malfeasance) and it was nice to have “That’s What She Said? to listen to while going through my files and taking care of other administrative close-out tasks. I especially enjoyed the discussion about seeing the world of Dunder-Mifflin through Ryan’s eyes. I like it when pilots are able to start the story “in medias reis,? so to speak, as opposed to highlighting an event that sets the stage for the rest of the series (like Rachel running into Central Perk in her wedding dress.) In The Office Pilot, things are carrying on as usual, and the only significant change is that we (via the documentary crew) are now able to observe them. The documentary technique and the arrival of a new temp allowed the writers to introduce us to the characters without the dialogue seeming clunky or unnecessarily expository. Maybe Ryan will play a similar role next season and give us a newcomer’s perspective on day-to-day life at the Corporate Office, hopefully including Kendall, bleh! To tide me over until the Season 4, I’ve been netflixing my other favorite office-related sitcom—-Newsradio. Newsradio almost seems like the bizarro version of The Office, in that the boss is the straight man and hard worker who must constantly put up with the antics of a wacky staff. Anyone who hasn’t seen it, I definitely recommend checking it out!
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Just a couple of thoughts: 1. In the U.K. Episode when David Brent is commenting about Gareth Keenan\'s car it is an expression of genuine friendship. Its all part of him wanting everybody to see that he has friends and is part of a tribe at Wernam Hogg. 2. I was a big fan of the U.K. Show and when the American show came on I thought the first episode was a real homage to the British show before they went on to create there own take on the show which has been nothing less than brilliant. 3. You must watch the U.K. two episodes: the Quiz night episode and the training day episode are high points in the history of television comedy 4. David Brent was much meaner and in a sad way more like flawed humans, I find that Michael Scott is more of a Caricature or a Cartoon Character. Thanks for your Great Podcast it is really entertaining!!!!! Glen
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You guys had me laughing at some of the comparisons you were making between the two versions. I\'ve watched both series and I am partial to the American version probably because I relate to them more. By the way, you guys should have seen my face when I heard you reading my comment on the podcast! That was wicked cool!
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>It\\\'s jarring to see Matt\\\'s picture taken down. Ian\\\'s picture, not Matt\\\'s. I didn\\\'t say Tim was a troll. I said he was a troll compared to Jim. As I noted, I never watched the British show, so when they first showed Tim it was sort of like seeing a parody of Krasinski from SNL or something.
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Not at all. I totally agree that your enjoyment of the other version is at first going to be completely based on how familiar you are with your version. When I first saw the US pilot, I really thought it was mediocre at best. So did many of my other friends who had seen the UK version first. However, the next day, I saw that they had put Diversity Day up on MySpace, and I immediately saw the potential in the new cast, and I stuck with it. Obviously, I\'m really glad I did, because the show has completely outgrown its UK roots. I think that what\'s impressive is not that they set up the plot threads in the pilot, but that they eventually paid them off later in the series, instead of dropping them. If that\'s what you\'re talking about, then I completely agree. When I watched the UK version originally, I watched it with captions on, and I think that helped me pick up on a lot of the slang and references. The original UK series never had a chance to jump the shark, or overstay its welcome, and I think that\'s one of the reasons that it tends to sit up on this pedestal as being untouchable. It had it\'s story, and it finished it up nicely. The US version has progressed amazingly, but I think there\'s still this nagging feeling in the back of my head that they will eventually screw it up. Hopefully I\'m wrong. :)
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Heh - my only real gripe with this episode is: Tim, a troll?? Martin Freeman isn\\\'t quite the dreamboat John Krasinski is, but he\\\'s still pretty freaking cute. This message coming to you from a gal who\\\'s been told multiple times that I\\\'m too picky about men: I\\\'d hit it! ;)
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Drew, my lack of enjoyment of the Pilot didn\'t have anything to do with the characters not being written well and everything to do with the constant abuse of one of the main characters! You tune into a comedy and end up seeing one of the characters beaten down time after time, until she is finally \"fired\" as part of a twisted joke. That scene is horrific, not comedic (though Ryan\'s reaction shot is pretty funny). Regarding the plot thread issue, for me that was one of the things that I enjoyed about the episode. Which is saying something considering the Pam abuse stuff that was a big turn off.
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I have to say, I really disagree that the US pilot is better than the UK pilot. In fact, I\\\'ve never actually heard anyone make that statement before, I assumed it was some sort of universal truth that the US version of this show didn\\\'t start until episode 2. I guess by that I mean, the things that make the US version great - the background characters, the drawn out character development, those are the things that we didn\\\'t see in the UK version. When the UK version is put up against the parts of the US version that are identical, the US version pales much of the time. One of the reasons I think you could say that the UK pilot is superior really just boils down to writing - the pilot episode features a story, and jokes, that were written for different characters. You commented a lot about how different Dwight is from Gareth, and Michael is from Brent -- these are Gareth jokes, and Brent jokes. They don\\\'t work nearly as well coming out of the US characters. I maintain there was a reason the pilot didn\\\'t hook you at the time, and you came back in season 2 - because by the time they were more than 5 episodes in, they really had set off in their own directions, writing stories that were for THEIR characters, not adaptations. Also, I\\\'m not really sure why keeping those plot threads through three season should be regarded as all that impressive, simply because by the time they wrote and filmed the pilot, the British version had already completed its series. The US version has kept the same threads as the UK story - two branches competing to avoid downsizing, one of them folding and the two being condensed, Jim & Pam... these are all stories that, by the time the Pilot was filmed, had already been told in the UK. Still, I enjoyed your comparisons, and I think you were dead on about some of your characterization differences. The UK version really is much darker in tone, meaner. Personally, I had seen every episode of the UK version before I ever saw the the US version, so maybe I\\\'m just biased. Anyway, great show, keep up the good work.
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Wow. It\'s jarring to see Matt\'s picture taken down. An era has ended. What the hell was going on with Steve Carrell\'s hair in season 1? I can\'t turn away when I see it now. Thanks for bringing it up. I never liked the UK Office, it was just too depressing. I know a lot of people like it but I don\'t think I ever got through an entire episode. Does anybody else always mix up Ricky Gervais and Eddie Izzard? Anyway, it\'s interesting to see how dark Michael and Dwight are in season 1. I guess you can say they\'ve grown as a characters but I think they had to be made more likable to sustain the series. American wouldn\'t turn in every week to see such awful people in a comedy. And they\'d never have a depressing ending like the one where Dwight gives everyone awful health insurance in season 3. Off to check out the Get Smart trailer.
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Hey guys - love the retro episodes! Ian is awesome, but Kevin, you\\\'re doing a fine job too. A couple of thoughts: On the subject of Pam being picked on by Michael and how maybe she would know him better - I wonder if part of that might be because they are being filmed. It\\\'s the pilot, so the whole camera crew thing is new to all of them. I think it amplifies traits in each character, making Michael a bigger jerk than he was before and making Pam more shy than she was before. He\\\'s definitely always been the way he is, but he\\\'s showing off more than usual as well, so he may be doing more \\\"Michael-ish\\\" stuff than Pam is used to. She may also be more upset at being fired because it\\\'s being filmed. I get the feeling that the camera makes her feel more vulnerable. It\\\'s interesting to see how the characters get more comfortable with the cameras being there as the show develops. A big difference between the two series that I noticed (and I\\\'ve noticed this with other British TV shows) is how much more sexual humor and inuendo they get away with than we do here. Some examples (from the series, not necessarily the pilot): Tim sneaking a sex toy onto David Brent\\\'s desk, chris Finch having sex with an employee in the parking lot, and tons and tons of references that would never fly on American network TV. I\\\'m still surprised they got away with saying \\\"boner\\\" and showing a blow-up doll on NBC! The Dawn/Tim and Pam/Jim relationships are an interesting contrast too. Tim comes off as kind of a loser, while Jim seems like more of a slacker. I could understand why Dawn liked Tim, but also didn\\\'t immediately ditch Lee for him - I mean, the guy still lives with his parents at age 30 (again, that comes out later, not in the pilot episode). On the American version, they made it work with Pam\\\'s loyalty and history with Roy, but Jim has always been such a better fit for her and it always seemed obvious that she should be with him. YAY Jenna for the Emmy nomination!
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