Thu, 22 February 2007
Will "Cocktails" be everything we're looking for and more, or will it fail to get us "buzzed"? NBC describes the episode like this: COCKTAILS
8:30/7:30c TV14 02.22.2007  There's obviously loads of potential for "awk" when alcohol is involved, so I'm expecting a good dose of somewhat cringy scenes. Will some truth come out, once the defenses are down? Can "JaMichael" last, once properly registered with Human Resources? Only time will tell.
Category:general
-- posted at: 11:27am EDT
Comments[46]
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I feel bad about bashing Al Gore. I\\\'d like to take it back. I do not really feel that his film is a vanity legacy thing. I believe he\\\'s sincere. The guilt tripping part? Well, that\\\'s unfair too. I feel guilty . . . mainly about not feeling guilty enough.
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Yeah, I can totally understand your point, Nomi. For me, I get kind of excited about having a few tidbits to carry through the week - there\'s really not many other shows I watch much and/or care about at all, so it feels like a nice little bonus. That being said however, it IS kind of disconcerting when it\'s a reasonably important piece of info. I am the \"go to\" Office geek among my friends and coworkers and I can\'t tell you how many emails I got about Andy\'s sudden, unexplained disappearance from those folks that don\'t watch deleted scenes and producer\'s cuts. LOTS of \"WTF?!\" emails. And I had a few frustrated \"where was Jim?!\" emails about the art show too. Generally I don\'t have too much of a problem incorporating what I see in a deleted scene into my general knowledge about the show, but if I had to try to remember what was \"for real\" and what was an extra... no way... More than once, I\'ve made reference to such-and-such a scene, and gotten one of those \"you\'re out of your mind\" looks from someone who doesn\'t watch the deleted scenes and then I go, \"Oh yeah, it must have been a deleted scene...\" I don\'t blame you for not being able to resist. I had to quit watching the preview scenes, because I felt like I was watching a rerun by the time the show came on... the difference is that I knew I\'d actually see those scenes when I watched the show... for you, you\'re just going to miss out if you don\'t watch the deleted scenes.
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I think the deleted they should be careful which deleted scenes they release. They shouldn\\\'t release any plot twisting ones. Only show the funny ones that only have to do with that episode. For instance. The stanley thats what she said one. Great scene but didnt have any effect on the plot at all. And matt your appearence on the frat pack awards was great. It really left me satisfied and smiling.
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Ahhhhh . . . understood by at least one person. Marci. Oh, and Larry David. That\\\'s right! Larry David will not release his deleted scenes and would not mind if they were burned. Ha. I\\\'m currently having a Larry David lovefest. It\\\'s sick. I can\\\'t get enough of him. It\\\'s becoming embarrassing. I was thrilled that his wife was at the academy award not because she helped make some guilt-tripping Al Gore vanity legacy project, but because Larry David would be there and might say something on the red carpet. I\\\'m kidding about the guilt-tripping Al Gore vanity legacy project. Mostly.
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Here\'s my two cents on the Roy situation. Have you ever seen someone snap? I mean just lose it? That\'s exactly what happened here. Roy snapped. And when someone loses it like that it\'s usually abrupt and violent. Especially for someone like Roy. Here he is trying to fit the mold that Pam is looking for but we\'ve slowly watched him wear down. The Roy who came in and leaned on Pam\'s desk to tell her that he\'s going out with his brother to get smashed is the same Roy that we knew before the breakup. When Pam says something to him about needing to come to Poor Richards then you see him transform into the \"fake\" Roy who wants to get Pam back. Then she lays a bombshell on him and that\'s it. All his acting, all his trying to be someone he truly doesn\'t want to be get\'s thrown back in his face. I think his character is a jerk. Has always been a jerk and obviously will most likely will continue to be a jerk. I\'m just glad Pam got a glimpse of this before engagement dos.
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Kevin, Oh, my brain. I think my brain\'s just too small. I don\'t know how to integrate the deleted scenes; I don\'t have a compartment to keep them in separately either. But . . . beyond my particular limitations, I guess I also think it\'s a bit of a cop out. I just keep thinking, I know you\'ve only got 21 minutes, but make it work! Just make it work and don\'t hedge all the time with these deleted scenes. I keep thinking of \"real\" art. I mean, would I really want to read a deleted scene from Hamlet? OK, scholars would go mad over a newly discovered scene, and even I would be curious. But I would never want the perfect \"world\" as I know it to change. I keep saying I want my fake world to be real. I know that sounds goofy, but I really mean it. I don\'t want to see the mechanism. I know. Someone\'s going to tell me not to watch the deleted scenes then. But I\'m not superhuman! I have to watch them. AND, as I\'ve said before, some of my favorite moments are in deleted scenes. But still. I don\'t like it. I\'m not missing the transitioning medium point either. I get it that the way entertainment is distributed and watched is changing, and this is an understandable experimentation. And now they semi have the freedom to run longer than the allotted TV minutes. Still, though, for me this creates a confusing mess. I keep thinking of a haiku poem. Yes, I know that sounds like a silly lofty analogy, but would you really want additional lines sort of stuck at the bottom of the page of a highly structured thing like a haiku poem? Or any poem? I know almost nothing about story writing, but I do know that a successful 21 minute TV show -- just like any other story -- depends on many things and one of those crucial things is pacing. I don\'t want to have to be an editor when I\'m watching TV. I don\'t want to have to figure out if Karen ripping the art show sign down IS definitely part of the story, when did it happen. That\'s craziness to me. Part of the pleasure of passively watching TV or a movie is passively watching. But I don\'t mean that in a negative couch potato way. There\'s plenty to explore (pardon that word) without having to do contortions in your mind about the significance of a deleted scene. You know, it\'s like give me the thing and I\'ll tell you what I think of it; don\'t give me the thing and then all the other parts you might have put in if you had time or then again maybe wouldn\'t have. That\'s fudging. Hey, you asked. BUT, listen. I understand that reasonable people can disagree on this. And I know that I\'m probably in the minority. That special, maligned, misunderstood-until-they\'re-dead minority . . . But, really, I\'m sure many people are in my husband\'s camp -- the what\'s-the-big-deal? camp. The they-film-them-they-release-them-they\'re-interesting-to -see camp. He has no problem incorporating the deleted scenes into the whole picture, into the Office world, so to speak. Which brings me back to what I said first off at the top of this post: My brain just does not do that well. So I think, in the end the problematic-ness for me is partly just the way my brain works, and partly an aesthetic reaction.
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>Not being supportive of your significant other is >emotional abuse, according to Dr. Drew. What are you talking about? Come on! Don\\\'t you remember how Roy said that Pam\\\'s art was the \\\"prettiest art of all the art\\\"? How could that not be considered supportive? ;-) I liked the Stanley/Ryan scene. Agree with Chris that Stanley isn\\\'t seeing the big picture, though it wasn\\\'t completely clear to me that it was a bar bar, instead of a restaurant bar (where minors might be allowed).
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Office Tally has this link: http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/sepinwall/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1172381932166670.xml&coll=1&thispage=1 to an article on the whole issue of releasing deleted scenes online, as well as what place they have in the story. A few show creators are quoted, and Greg Daniels says a bunch of interesting things about how he sees the whole thing in relation to The Office. It\'s definitely worth reading. He says something about why he only explained in the online version what happened to Andy that\'s fascinating. And a little strange. For me, the whole thing remains problematic. Almost more so after reading how he sees things. I\'d be interested to hear what other people think.
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I agree with Nomi -- well said Marci! I watched the episode again just now and despite the throwing things bit Roys anger actually grows, if a bit quickly. What I\'m trying to say is that the outburst wasn\'t QUITE as sudden as I felt it was upon first viewing. Other favorite things in the episode: Jan/Michael argument in the bathroom. Ha ha! I loved the shots of just the door and the people trying to ignore the obvious raised voices on the other side. Oh, and Michael\'s line while being pushed inside, \"Why are we going into the bathroom? I thought this was where you liked your privacy.\" Ha ha ha. Michael\'s realization that he dressed \"exactly like the servants.\" Pam\'s new assertiveness. Brava! Creed\'s Fake ID company.
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Did this episode have this tone because of JJ Abrams\' direction? And since we never saw Jim and the CFO again maybe we could assume he talked to Jim about his future at DM? Maybe a NY job offer will come in May? Off topic slightly. In Business School how exactly was Michael going to use that Chunky candy bar in his presentation? I can\'t even imagine. Lynne, I only caught the \"No Thank You Roy\" with my ipod headphones second watching but it was great.
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I don\'t remember if anyone mentioned this but I just noticed that after Roy starts going nuts and Pam walks away Kevin is holding up his fists like he\'s ready to fight Roy.....or I suppose protect himself if Roy\'s anger changes direction. I like to believe he was ready to defend Pam :)
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I was really shocked by the Roy outburst but I liked that wasn\'t totally comfortable with how it fit in the Office. Cringy in a different way than we\'re used too. If I was to try justify his reaction (which I don\'t) I\'d have to say Pam should never have said... remember that casino night RIGHT BEFORE I canceled our wedding?. How many casino night\'s have there been? Just say the casino night. Also having Kenny there joining in with the jet ski thing made the end of that scene actually funny where it was heading to scary before.
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Of course I agree that emotional abuse is horribly damaging. I\'m not sure, though, that I\'d go so far as to describe Roy\'s luggish treatment of Pam as emotional abuse. Definitely not supportive and encouraging, but not sure it rises to the level of emotional abuse.
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Wow, I was actually scared for Pam\'s safety when Roy went ballistic - even though I\'ve suspected that Renaissance Roy wouldn\'t last. There is an empty seat next to Andy in Anger Management class and it\'s got Roy\'s name all over it! Looks like the deleted Toby crush plotline has made it back into the show. Poor Flenderson! He spends the whole night trying to win that duck for Pam and then she tells him to give it to his daughter! Poor guy. By the way, the small pharmaceutical company I work for just got bought by an international company. Their \"integration team\" had a meeting w/ us today and our CEO gave a little speech. Then out of nowhere he grabs this plastic bag, pulls out baseball caps with our company logo, and starts tossing them to these serious business men. It reminded me so much of Michael tossing the candy bars at the business school students last week that I almost burst out laughing! It was unreal.
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Wow, who knew so much debate would be stirred up over Roy\\\'s flip out. Instead of clarifying my point for the third or forth time I\\\'ll just say: Marci, you put it perfectly. Of course, I tend to say that whenever someone agrees with ME. All opinions are welcome, as long as they are exactly the same as mine. Heehee. Kristopher, it\\\'s inspiring that Pam is inspiring you ;), but in defense of Matt\\\'s curmudgeonness, even though I don\\\'t aways feel the same way he does, I think I understand it. It doesn\\\'t mean he doesn\\\'t love the show. I feel like it\\\'s almost the opposite: he DOES love it and therefore when he feels let down by it, it\\\'s that much worse. And I can really relate to that initial disappointment with a new episode upon first viewing. It\\\'s happened to me a lot, especially with the lesser episodes (the ones that are lesser to me) -- they initially feel worse than they actually are. I don\\\'t know, maybe it\\\'s to do with how cram packed they are; you just can\\\'t take it in fully the first time, and if it\\\'s an episode that bothers you for whatever reason, that aspect of it dominates until you watch it a second and third time and are then able to see that, although overall it still isn\\\'t one of your favorites, it\\\'s better than you thought and there are actually funny good parts. And Kevin Crossman, Michael\\\'s getting Jan to move into a relationship of mutual love & respect? Um, yes, Jan is \\\"melting\\\" some in a bizarre (but thrilling) back and forth way, but \\\"mutual love & respect? I don\\\'t think so. But Jan is so hot. I\\\'m with you on that. I\\\'d hit her, even though I\\\'m only gay in the bad at sports way.
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The Toby thing - it\\\'s interesting how it was regaled to deleted scenes, but now seems to be back with a vengeance... I love that both times Pam has blocked with his daughter. Hahah... my friends and I were just killing ourselves when he was playing the game. I would\\\'ve liked to have seen him lose more.
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Jan saying \"That\'s What She Said!\" Brilliant, and congratulations, you guys! Roy\'s freak out was a bit disturbing for sit-com violence. But I think his threat at the very end of the show \"I\'m going to kill Jim Halpert,\" was hammy and over the top enough to bring it back to comedy. Are we in for a battle of wits with Jim pranking Roy the rest of the year until May sweeps?
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I really enjoyed this episode. Roy\\\'s freak out was definitely NOT expected, but that being said it\\\'s not something I wouldn\\\'t expect from him. He\\\'s got issues, and he\\\'s trying hard -- and then that happens. Everyone has a different reaction when they get angry --- some cry (Angela), some run (Pam), some fight (Roy) so it\\\'s really not that out of left field, I don\\\'t understand why everyone\\\'s getting so up in the air about it. I mean THAT is Roy - he\\\'s jealous, we\\\'ve seen it before, add some alcohol and look what happens... I donno why everyone is so shocked. And I have been wondering the same thing as Kristopher lately...
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I loved loved loved Roy\\\'s brother throwing the chair! That was so awesome. I think this was another top episode. Michael was a tad over the top, but of course the last 1/3 of the episode he was the emotional center of the the Jan/Michael relationship. He\\\'s getting the ice queen to melt and move from a purely sexual relationship to one of mutual love and respect. Jan is so hot. It just has to be said. The Roy stuff was a bit abrupt but as noted above I think he\\\'s shown instances of violence before so I think it\\\'s okay. Also, Pam needed a really big confrontation to realize what a mistake she\\\'s made. With Pam being more assertive I can\\\'t imagine how the show can avoid her \\\"confronting\\\" Jim before the season is out. Liked the Andy reference, and let\\\'s hear it for Karen for pranking Jim (and all of us viewers as well!). Outstanding! BTW - the \\\"Toby hired a hooker\\\" theory is certainly looking more and more likely isn\\\'t it. Toby is so pathetic. Finally, loved the Dwight appearance in the car with Michael and Jan. Laugh out loud moment!
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Been listening to the podcast since it started, but first time posting. In response to Matt\'s comments, here\'s the theory at our office... As mentioned, Roy had probably had a lot to drink and thus the reaction. Also, it did seem he was going quickly down hill. As to having his brother there, in the past he\'d been in a long-term relationship with Pam. After they split, he likely started hanging out with Kenny. They get in the habit of hanging out, plus they did have plans to drink together, thus he goes to the bar with Roy. Just a thought. Overall, great episode, and while there was a LOT of Dwight, it was still funny, especially sitting in the kid\'s room and then saying it was a great party. Looking forward to seeing what happens. And... Poor Toby.
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I think Roy\'s blow-up and Pam breaking up with him makes sense in relation to their characters. Roy just bragged to Pam that he could have hooked up during their down time but didn\'t. He thinks of himself as a catch, as someone who could get anyone whenever he wants. To him Pam isn\'t like that. The fact that SHE kissed someone else, and not even when they were broken up but when they were together, is probably totally mind blowing to him. He finds it so unbelievable that sweet and boring Pam could basically cheat on him that he has to put all of the blame on Jim. Pam, who had already been doubting her decision to get back with Roy and is now more courageous, sees in an instant that her gut instinct is correct and ends the sham of a reunion. Roy thinks he\'s a MAN and Jim is just some guy. The fact that Jim edged in on his terrority practically in front of him and he didn\'t see it probably makes him even angrier. I can\'t wait to see what results from this!
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Yeah, Keith, I LOVED Jan\'s \"That\'s what she said\" moment. I think I missed the next 2 minutes of dialogue after that because I was still laughing. Their relationship... well, it IS over the top, but I\'m still amused by it. I had a feeling that the Pam and Roy fling was going to end very abruptly and definitively. I agree that it felt more than a little rushed and just kind of weird, but I think it was more important to show Pam\'s progression thru it all. She almost did a backslide into the old Pam, realized she had come too far to do that, then decided to assert herself more. I think Roy was a plot device to get her to make those steps, and at the same time they have now closed the door (if a bit awkwardly) on them getting back together. I can\'t wait to see how this plays out. Maybe somehow it will finally force everybody to confront the feelings they\'ve been dancing around all season.
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This was one of the best (if not the best) episodes this season. A lot of people have said they didn\\\'t like Roy\\\'s blowup but I am really glad it happened. The predictable thing would have been to have Roy slowly turn back into his old self but this caught me off guard and I liked that. Also, I think Roy will play an important role in Pam and Jim getting together. Pam told Roy that she and Jim had feelings for eachother and I think Roy is going to confront Jim (to beat him like a rented mule) and say that Pam said that. Which will give Jim a renewed spark of hope. I enjoy the podcast but Matt you don\\\'t even seem to like any of the episodes which makes me wonder what motivates you to do a weekly podcast?
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I just realized that this is the first time that I\'m actually hoping for a particular deleted scene to be put out. Yes, it\'s come to this. (I\'m normally not a big fan of the release of the deleted scenes, for anyone who hasn\'t heard me complain about them.) But I\'m sure they filmed a lot more for the Pam/Roy blow up and I bet there\'s footage that would have made it feel more \"right.\"
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Matt posted his comment while I was writing mine, so I didn\'t see his before I posted. Yeah, the whole Roy flip-flop has been clunky, to say the least. We knew he had to revert, and I guess they\'re not going to go into exquisite nuances about that, but the way they\'ve handled it has been disappointingly heavy handed. And, yeah, Kenny attached to his hip out of the blue for two episodes is pretty ridiculous. The Jan/Michael stuff (MAN) -- I don\'t know. The whole thing is so ludicrous -- yeah, Jan might be perversely attracted to him and periodically have \"encounters\" with him or whatever, but she would never have a so-called real relationship with him. BUT, given that they ARE having her do that, I agree some of the best written and acted scenes were with them. That scene in the car was pretty amazingly bizarre and great.
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I don\'t have time to write a full comment right now (I heard that general sigh of relief! ;) ) but I had to mention this because I thought of it while in the chat room, and I\'m likely to forget it before tomorrow. I don\'t think Roy\'s sudden violence was so out of the blue. I always knew he\'d freak out if/when Pam told him about Casino Night and true, I didn\'t expect it to be so explosive, but remember back in season two when Jim and Pam were working on one of their many capers (I was thinking it was when they put Dwight\'s resume on Monster.com, but I could be wrong) and Roy caught them standing very close (and very innocent) and completely freaked out at Jim? In many ways this was the same type of thing only on a much grander scale. (Both the action and the reaction) Plus, Roy had been drinking so naturally, his emotions would be heightened. *shrug* Just a thought.
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Melonie, I agree that it wasn\\\'t out of the blue or out of character for Roy to freak out. I just thought the pacing of it was off, too condensed. Maybe only a little too condensed, but it jumped out at me. keith W, Jan\\\'s \\\"that what she said\\\" WAS great. She -- Melora Hardin -- really pulls off that kind thing so well.
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I think I really liked this episode. Different feel for sure. I have to watch again to know how I feel. Some episodes my husband laughs a lot and I miss some dialog. This must be a good one because I missed a lot. Dwight was the best of what I did see. He\'s so awesome. I do want them to get back into the office soon. Enough with the functions and parties and events. Something as boring as picking a health care provider made a very funny episode. I want them to go back to that kind of episode.
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I don\\\'t normally comment much until I\\\'ve seen the episode more than once -- don\\\'t want to wake up ashamed of \\\"Thursday Night Nomi\\\" ;), but just on the Roy reaction at the end there, to me it was like they only had 30 seconds left and they crammed things to fit in. Not that I disagree that he would have reacted badly, possibly very badly, but I really thought they had him lose it too early. He\\\'d be shocked and angry right away, certainly. But wouldn\\\'t he want to hear more of what happened and when before breaking things? Wouldn\\\'t he have to know? Also, the \\\"I\\\'m gunna kill Jim Halpert\\\" just felt really forced. Even Pam saying \\\"this is over\\\" seemed off at that moment. Her walking away from him was right, but I don\\\'t think she would say that it was over right then. It was like they had to get that all in before the weeks without an episode, so they condensed a five minute scene into less than a minute.
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\"MAN,\" heehee. I know Matt and others try to stay away from previews and spoilers, so I won\'t say much, but if one of the previews is not deliberately misleading, I\'m not so sure that they are trying to use Karen\'s as either a source of jealousy, or as evidence that Jim is a rebound. I could be all wrong, though. I suppose we\'ll know in 20something minutes . . . yeah, kind of late for upcoming episode speculation. Hm.
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holy shit! what an episode Iv\'e never watched a show that can be so simultaneously funny yet real and touching. That thing with Roy in the bar got me scared just watching, and the talks with Michael and Jan were great. (especially when dwight popped his head up) I almost want them to go the distance just because their so wrong for each other. And oh, by the way, Jim is a DEAD MAN.
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I\\\'m kinda disappointed with this episode....for the first time I actually didn\\\'t fall off my couch laughing like i usually do....i felt like michael\\\'s antics were too over-the-top...I didn\\\'t expect Roy to react that way....and i like the episodes where most of the scenes take place in the Dunder Mifflin office!
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i\\\'m sick as a dog, winter sucks! :( i need to catch up on the podcast and the posts. at least its thursday, woo-hoo :) ahh, \\\"the office\\\", the cure for any ailment. i\\\'m thinking this will be a kind of \\\"cliffhanger\\\" episode since there\\\'s nothing but repeats in march.
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I don\'t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but with Phyllis on vacation and Ryan getting exhiled to the back does everyone realize that those seats are open, hopefully temporarily. Any cANDY ass could sit there. I am not a fan of the word candy ass but I felt it fit at this moment in time. Have fun watching the show tonight!
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I think it was said already (on the podcast maybe?), but I think Karen\'s ex is going to be Jim Jr. or Roy Jr.. (Even though that doesn\'t fit the executive model all that well.) That\'s where the comedy lies at least... they could go a lot of ways with it though. Make him all suave... enough to intimidate Jim to look at Karen differently...
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