Thu, 16 November 2006 Funniest part of the episode? The Andy/Dwight rivalry. Not only is he after Dwight's position in the office & dissin' the D-man's ride, he's also charming the chastity belt off of his girlfriend. The almost killed even this, though, in the "way too long" credits sequence. Least funniest part of the episode? Everything else. So I guess it's official-- Jim and Karen are "dating." This certainly wasn't the reunion the "HalpEesley" fans were hoping for, and it also seems like it's following along with the UK version... which is OK in and of itself. Like the last few episodes, this was definitely a plot mover. I hope that being settled officially in Scranton we can get on with the regular office- hijinx episodes we've come to know and love. I think Martin hit the nail on the head-- too much filler, not enough meat. Category: general -- posted at: 9:05 PM Comments[39] |
The best part for me was Pam's emotional journey. In this episode she went from "schoolgirl" level giddy with excitement to just eviscerated when she saw Karen rub Jim's back. She seriously looked visibly ill. Maybe not a "ha ha" episode, but good for story.
Speaking of Staples... MAN, was that product placement just blatant! It was billed as having a "pivotal" role in the episode, but that scene HAD no purpose other than to sell the Staples "mailmate" shredder.
I know I am probably going to mellow after watching it a few more times, but as it stands, this is one of the worst episodes of the office I think I've ever seen.
I know I am probably going to mellow after watching it a few more times, but as it stands, this is one of the worst episodes of the office I think I've ever seen.
Ah, come on... it wasn't that bad, was it? Yes, the paper shredder thing was a little too in-your-face, but worst episode ever? And like Andy said, this episode was definitely good from a story point of view. And what about Jim leaving Flenderson hanging? Funny, but at the same time I felt pretty terrible for Toby... even if he does represent everything wrong with the world.
On another note, how long do you think Dwight and Andy can survive in the same environment? I can see it being funny for a while, but I think it could get to be too much.
Still love the show guys... the highlight of Monday mornings. Keep up the good work.
On another note, how long do you think Dwight and Andy can survive in the same environment? I can see it being funny for a while, but I think it could get to be too much.
Still love the show guys... the highlight of Monday mornings. Keep up the good work.
Well I wouldn't say that this was one of the worst episodes I've ever seen but I do agree with you on the entire Staples paper shredder advertisment. It especially annoyed me when Kevin was doing his talking head, the camera would turn to the paper shredder and you could see a big "STAPLES" logo on it. Keep up the great work with the podcasts.
Yeah, Matt, I think (hope) you'll change your mind a bit after another viewing or two. I don't normally watch 30 Rock, but as it came on right after tonight (last night!), I did, and I mention it because it was literally about NBC pushing their writers to incorporate very crude product placement. Funny.
My problem at the moment with this episode is that I can hardly remember the funny parts because of the sad and frustrating Jim and Pam scene at the end there.
For the whole series they've done something that I think is very difficult -- make a true and gut wrenching love story the heart of a comedy. They've been remarkably successful. I'd say they are still pulling it off, but this season I can see the wheels turning a lot more than last.
Yeah, I became a person who yells at her TV when Pam couldn't do better than the "we're friends" thing when Jim obviously wanted her to give him a reason to "sort of stop" seeing someone.
My problem at the moment with this episode is that I can hardly remember the funny parts because of the sad and frustrating Jim and Pam scene at the end there.
For the whole series they've done something that I think is very difficult -- make a true and gut wrenching love story the heart of a comedy. They've been remarkably successful. I'd say they are still pulling it off, but this season I can see the wheels turning a lot more than last.
Yeah, I became a person who yells at her TV when Pam couldn't do better than the "we're friends" thing when Jim obviously wanted her to give him a reason to "sort of stop" seeing someone.
Definitely not the funniest installment thus far, but it had some good moments. I'm just glad they didn't rehash the Seinfeld Bizzarro episode. It would've been easy to make everyone have a counterpart that had different worh ethics or values. That would've been a "shark jumping" episode had they done that. The episode might not have sparkled, but they handled the merger well.
As I said, the Andy stuff was the only funny part of the show for me... his instant grasp of how to win Michael over ("personality imitation" or whatever he called it) was brilliant... and how Michael loved him after one day, and THEN told Dwight to shut up when "D" tried the same tactics... funny stuff.
I just didn't find these NEW new characters interesting... by that I mean the people from Stamford we've never seen before today (the younger black guy, the breast-pump woman). I was hoping they would ALL quit, except for Andy and Karen, but no such luck.
I am also getting to the point where I no longer like Pam all that much. We've commented on that all season so far, and it really makes it hard to root for her to "win" in the Halpert wars if she comes off as mean in every episode.
I don't know. I don't mean to go all "comic book guy" on you all, and I've NEVER come out and said "worst episode ever" before on this show... not ONCE. Something about this episode just really failed to satisfy me...
I just didn't find these NEW new characters interesting... by that I mean the people from Stamford we've never seen before today (the younger black guy, the breast-pump woman). I was hoping they would ALL quit, except for Andy and Karen, but no such luck.
I am also getting to the point where I no longer like Pam all that much. We've commented on that all season so far, and it really makes it hard to root for her to "win" in the Halpert wars if she comes off as mean in every episode.
I don't know. I don't mean to go all "comic book guy" on you all, and I've NEVER come out and said "worst episode ever" before on this show... not ONCE. Something about this episode just really failed to satisfy me...
Actually, I thought it was one of the best episodes this season. The thing I missed most about Jim being in Stamford were those classic Dwight-Jim moments, and I thought it was brilliant how Jim immediately responded to Dwight's attempt at intimidating him upon his return with that subtle "looking over his head" thing - Jim knows exactly what buttons to push. As for Jim-Pam: GOOD. Pam deserves a little of her own medicine - I love the symmetry of the roles being reversed, and instead of Jim being constantly shot down while Pam went home with Roy every night, Pam will now get to see what she missed out on, and is missing out on. If they got together this episode, the series would be over.
One more thing: If Ed Helms is not going to be a regular, they need to kill off the Andy character NOW - I think everyone is getting pretty attached to him. He was great last night, and had some of the best lines. While Andy and Dwight occupy the same "niche" in the show (sycophantic ambitious doofus), and one of them needs to leave, they run the risk of losing a beloved character if Andy sticks around too long. Maybe he will be the one with the criminal past...
One more thing: If Ed Helms is not going to be a regular, they need to kill off the Andy character NOW - I think everyone is getting pretty attached to him. He was great last night, and had some of the best lines. While Andy and Dwight occupy the same "niche" in the show (sycophantic ambitious doofus), and one of them needs to leave, they run the risk of losing a beloved character if Andy sticks around too long. Maybe he will be the one with the criminal past...
Matt - I have to say, you're worrying me. So the next podcast should be fun.
But on the bright side, at least this got your mind off of those John Krasinski pictures in PEOPLE. :-)
But on the bright side, at least this got your mind off of those John Krasinski pictures in PEOPLE. :-)
posted by: Ian C. on Fri, 11/17 10:21 AM EST
People seem to be reacting to Michael dissing Dwight, but he's been very of dismissive of Dwight for a long time. I loved the interaction between Jim and Dwight when Jim was staring at his forehead.
A very good episode overall. I really like the setup with Pam/Jim/Karen -- and nice to see a confirmation that Jim and Karen are dating.
Loved the moment where Jim was appointed as number two "Actually, it does come with a raise."
I'm definitely going to watch again... lots of things to look at again. Michael's comments about slaves, for example.
The struggle I'm having is trying to figure out where everyone is sitting in the office. I didn't think they had much extra space and they added six characters.
A very good episode overall. I really like the setup with Pam/Jim/Karen -- and nice to see a confirmation that Jim and Karen are dating.
Loved the moment where Jim was appointed as number two "Actually, it does come with a raise."
I'm definitely going to watch again... lots of things to look at again. Michael's comments about slaves, for example.
The struggle I'm having is trying to figure out where everyone is sitting in the office. I didn't think they had much extra space and they added six characters.
posted by: Kevin Crossman on Fri, 11/17 10:41 AM EST
Ha! That was my thing, too. I think they'll have to bump out a wall or something. That's just way too many people in that little space. It's going to start to get too hot in there, and the temperature is going to be even more of an issue than it is now between Kevin, Oscar & Angela. And what about Oscar? Where's he going to sit?
These are the things that plague me. Not Pam & Jim. Those two kids'll be fine. I worry about desk placement, people!
These are the things that plague me. Not Pam & Jim. Those two kids'll be fine. I worry about desk placement, people!
I just posted the following at the other place where I spend too much time talking about The Office (theofficeforum.net). For anyone else frustrated by Pam's lameness last night:
I just thought of something goofy but true. I think.
She needed Kelly there to egg her on.
For real, if Kelly knew what was going on, she totally would have pushed Pam to declare her love.
Yes! We need Kelly. PAM needs Kelly!
Ahhh, a purpose for Kelly after all . . . .
I just thought of something goofy but true. I think.
She needed Kelly there to egg her on.
For real, if Kelly knew what was going on, she totally would have pushed Pam to declare her love.
Yes! We need Kelly. PAM needs Kelly!
Ahhh, a purpose for Kelly after all . . . .
Matt-
Don't you need to wait for Martin's POS rating before deciding on the worst episode ever? Truthfully, no episode will ever be as bad as the pilot- after watching it I am always surprised that this show made it. If not for Diversity Day being the second episode- who knows?!?!?
I try to watch the episode three time before I pass any judgement, since they are so multi-layered. I agree with you that Pam has gotten a little mean- I thought about the podcast and you saying that during this week's cold open. It was scary that the issue she talked about when addressing the camera in the cold open was almost the same one you guys talked about.
Everyone needs to remember one thing about Jim and Pam- he sees her as having rejected him. If she didn't like how things are working out for her then she should have addressed the issue better- which, my guess is, she will. I love how they shot the final scene in the parking lot where he told her that he loved her- brilliant.
Don't you need to wait for Martin's POS rating before deciding on the worst episode ever? Truthfully, no episode will ever be as bad as the pilot- after watching it I am always surprised that this show made it. If not for Diversity Day being the second episode- who knows?!?!?
I try to watch the episode three time before I pass any judgement, since they are so multi-layered. I agree with you that Pam has gotten a little mean- I thought about the podcast and you saying that during this week's cold open. It was scary that the issue she talked about when addressing the camera in the cold open was almost the same one you guys talked about.
Everyone needs to remember one thing about Jim and Pam- he sees her as having rejected him. If she didn't like how things are working out for her then she should have addressed the issue better- which, my guess is, she will. I love how they shot the final scene in the parking lot where he told her that he loved her- brilliant.
Am I crazy? What is this Staples scene everyone is talking about? Itunes is shielding us from product placement. No one has mentioned one of my favorite lines from the tragedy that is Michael's childhood, where he says how he was friends with the lunch lady by the end of the fourth grade. It reminded me of an episode of Monk, where one of young Adrian Monk's few school friends is the cafeteria lady.
Wow, Karen and Jim got together fast. I don't buy it. I will never ever ever buy "Jaren." I really love Andy as Dwight's foil, but I was hoping for more Jim vs. Dwight interaction, maybe next week.
Wow, Karen and Jim got together fast. I don't buy it. I will never ever ever buy "Jaren." I really love Andy as Dwight's foil, but I was hoping for more Jim vs. Dwight interaction, maybe next week.
posted by: Elisabeth on Fri, 11/17 09:08 PM EST
Good Lord. For the build-up, this episode didn't give me my pam-n-jim fix, though I suppose it is true to life and I respect the writers for that no matter how much I just want the two of them to stop being so stubborn and just kiss, get married and live happily ever after.
I dunno...I liked it when I watched it, but now that I think back, did I really? It might have been my giddiness at a supersized JAM return (which also shattered my mind, that last few minutes. Ugh)
When the hell did Karen and Jim start going out? Are they going out? How does it go from "I'm into him" to "I'm sorta seeing someone."? Did Jim just say that to get a rise out of Pam? I had this discussion with some other Office-watchers today, and I had this to say to them about their hatred of Karen. "Pam's being a bitch. Jim and Karen are being bitches. Everyone's a bitch." Seriously, the whole "You can do what you want! We're friends" line....I dunno... Even Ryan was a bitch, taking Jim's seat, forcing him to turn his back to Pam.
I totally saw Lazy Scranton coming, but it still caught me off guard. I liked it. Also, Scranton Witch Project? Awesome.
So now we know Michael is even more pathetic. His parents are split ("my mom moved in with Jeff, and I had to fix that too" (what does that mean? did he split them up?)) and Michael hasn't had friends for a long time as far back as the 4th grade, where he had to befriend the lunchlady because everyone hated him.
I dunno...I had more thoughts but I forgot them all.
When the hell did Karen and Jim start going out? Are they going out? How does it go from "I'm into him" to "I'm sorta seeing someone."? Did Jim just say that to get a rise out of Pam? I had this discussion with some other Office-watchers today, and I had this to say to them about their hatred of Karen. "Pam's being a bitch. Jim and Karen are being bitches. Everyone's a bitch." Seriously, the whole "You can do what you want! We're friends" line....I dunno... Even Ryan was a bitch, taking Jim's seat, forcing him to turn his back to Pam.
I totally saw Lazy Scranton coming, but it still caught me off guard. I liked it. Also, Scranton Witch Project? Awesome.
So now we know Michael is even more pathetic. His parents are split ("my mom moved in with Jeff, and I had to fix that too" (what does that mean? did he split them up?)) and Michael hasn't had friends for a long time as far back as the 4th grade, where he had to befriend the lunchlady because everyone hated him.
I dunno...I had more thoughts but I forgot them all.
Matt, I liked this episode a lot more the second time I watched it. Have you given it a second viewing? Once I digested the plot movement part of it, I enjoyed the subtle comedy and all the new interactions between characters a lot more.
I loved that Pam was so shocked to see Karen rub Jim's back that she couldn't even look away from the camera. It was the perfect dear in the headlights moment. And just when you think Michael can't make a scene in the conference room any more awkward than he has in the past...
I DO NOT understand all this Pam hate - she's doing exactly what Jim does to Dwight and nobody complains about Jim! Pam making Dwight run around the building was one of the few laugh out loud moments in this episode for me - Jenna Fischer is hilarious! ("3 more laps Dwight!") I think Pam has evolved into a much more interesting, colorful and realistic character now that she's on her own, and everybody just needs to back off!! Do we really want to see quiet, mousy Pam for the rest of the series? Really?? If anything I find Jim to be lame lately - he looks like somebody just kicked his puppy and I'm tired of it! (maybe once he and Pam start having lots of Halpeesly babies he'll chipper up)
Matt - I totally agree about Andy - he was so funny this week that I'm falling in love with his character and don't want to lose him. After the sad Jim/Pam interaction this week, I can't wait to see Andy make a pass at Pam. It ought to be funny and perhaps make Jim squirm a bit?
Random: Does anybody think that Jim wanted his old desk back so he could see Pam or was it just old habit? He looked really bummed to be booted out.
I loved that Pam was so shocked to see Karen rub Jim's back that she couldn't even look away from the camera. It was the perfect dear in the headlights moment. And just when you think Michael can't make a scene in the conference room any more awkward than he has in the past...
I DO NOT understand all this Pam hate - she's doing exactly what Jim does to Dwight and nobody complains about Jim! Pam making Dwight run around the building was one of the few laugh out loud moments in this episode for me - Jenna Fischer is hilarious! ("3 more laps Dwight!") I think Pam has evolved into a much more interesting, colorful and realistic character now that she's on her own, and everybody just needs to back off!! Do we really want to see quiet, mousy Pam for the rest of the series? Really?? If anything I find Jim to be lame lately - he looks like somebody just kicked his puppy and I'm tired of it! (maybe once he and Pam start having lots of Halpeesly babies he'll chipper up)
Matt - I totally agree about Andy - he was so funny this week that I'm falling in love with his character and don't want to lose him. After the sad Jim/Pam interaction this week, I can't wait to see Andy make a pass at Pam. It ought to be funny and perhaps make Jim squirm a bit?
Random: Does anybody think that Jim wanted his old desk back so he could see Pam or was it just old habit? He looked really bummed to be booted out.
Worst episode ever? Common - no way... this episode was great as far as actual acting goes. To see Jenna go from one extreme to the other - amazing... all the interaction was great. Yes - a lot of new people came in, but if you remember back to the first episode of the season remember when we knew nothing about Karen or Andy? Or even when Meredith would have tons of stuff (Ooohhh Champagne!) and now she gets barely anything - who knows breast pump lady might start making out with Creed? Black guy might be the criminal (wouldn't that just be INTENSE??? Michael would start getting all riled up, but at the same time trying to be Politically correct) hahah --- anyways, we never know where the writers are taking us, but I love it. I love that it's not a 2D story where we don't care about the characters and where we don't feel hurt when we see them getting hurt.
The one thing I question is this. Obviously Jim & Pam will end up together in the end... but how will they get rid of Karen? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Also, I read somewhere ****SPOILER**** that Jim was going to help Andy hit on Pam? True or false? Thoughts???
The one thing I question is this. Obviously Jim & Pam will end up together in the end... but how will they get rid of Karen? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Also, I read somewhere ****SPOILER**** that Jim was going to help Andy hit on Pam? True or false? Thoughts???
I've been reading some reviews, and they all seem to revolve around the awkwardness that is Pam. Why is she still hiding her feelings? She's not engaged, and she has no reason to be that way. She knows how Jim feels. Is she doing nothing and expecting him to do the hard work again?
arrgh! SO many ideas!
I'm reading some stuff, and people who refuse to believe Jim and Karen could be dating are saying that Jim may have said he was dating someone (not saying who this person is...keep that in mind.) so that Pam would feel more comfortable around him.
FROM:ISITTHURSDAYYET from OFFICETALLY.COM
"This is what I thought happened:
Jim thought things were awkward between them during the day because of how they left things. So what’s the best way to get back a friend after telling her you loved her and she rejected you?
You tell her you’re dating someone else so that she’ll feel more comfortable
And after the parking lot scene where Pam looked like she wanted to burst into tears, throw up and slit her wrists all at the same time, she figured that she messed up and is too late, so she’s acting like they don’t owe each other anything
Both of which hurt the other person, all in the process of trying to bridge the gap
That’s how I took it. Its frustrating as hell, but I think its an honest reaction from both of them to protect themselves."
I'm reading some stuff, and people who refuse to believe Jim and Karen could be dating are saying that Jim may have said he was dating someone (not saying who this person is...keep that in mind.) so that Pam would feel more comfortable around him.
FROM:ISITTHURSDAYYET from OFFICETALLY.COM
"This is what I thought happened:
Jim thought things were awkward between them during the day because of how they left things. So what’s the best way to get back a friend after telling her you loved her and she rejected you?
You tell her you’re dating someone else so that she’ll feel more comfortable
And after the parking lot scene where Pam looked like she wanted to burst into tears, throw up and slit her wrists all at the same time, she figured that she messed up and is too late, so she’s acting like they don’t owe each other anything
Both of which hurt the other person, all in the process of trying to bridge the gap
That’s how I took it. Its frustrating as hell, but I think its an honest reaction from both of them to protect themselves."
Oh, did anyone else find it odd that no one seemed to care that Jim was going to be number 2? Michael didn't care that he had a new #2, Dwight didn't care that his position was threatened and that Jim would be his boss, Andy didn't care that Big Tuna would be his boss, and JIM didn't seem to care that he'd be over everyone.
It threw me off that no one seemed to care about the changing of power. Not even Jim, who knew he'd be #2 all along and didn't rub his new power in Dwight's face. You'd think Dwight would think he'd be getting demoted. Arrggh...I'm so confused!
It threw me off that no one seemed to care about the changing of power. Not even Jim, who knew he'd be #2 all along and didn't rub his new power in Dwight's face. You'd think Dwight would think he'd be getting demoted. Arrggh...I'm so confused!
Martin--
I agree that they totally skipped the power struggle aspect of the episode. The fact that Michael didn't know seemed... a bit odd. The fact Jim wouldn't coordinate with Michael before arriving in the office seemed... a bit odd. Surely Andy should have already known about the #2 position since it was discussed in BRANCH CLOSING, but Dwight totally acquiescing like that? To hated rival Jim? To quote Wallace Shawn-- "inconceivable!" :)
I agree that they totally skipped the power struggle aspect of the episode. The fact that Michael didn't know seemed... a bit odd. The fact Jim wouldn't coordinate with Michael before arriving in the office seemed... a bit odd. Surely Andy should have already known about the #2 position since it was discussed in BRANCH CLOSING, but Dwight totally acquiescing like that? To hated rival Jim? To quote Wallace Shawn-- "inconceivable!" :)
I'll bet Michael's Mom shows up in a sweeps week guest role with a big star playing the part. Who'd be good there? Betty White maybe too old for this role.
The power struggle for number three will be ongoing. They probibly didn't focus on the battle for number two because we already knew from last week that Jim would be the number two.
The power struggle for number three will be ongoing. They probibly didn't focus on the battle for number two because we already knew from last week that Jim would be the number two.
Martin - that quote you put up is very interesting. I just assumed that Jim was testing the waters with Pam, and when she pretended not to care he decided to start dating Karen that night. I didn\'t think he was making it up but that would be interesting if he was. I think it\'s mostly wishful thinking, though, to hope that Karen and Jim won\'t have some type of relationship. The thing that confuses me is why the writers waited until we got back to Scranton to spring this on us - were they lulling into a false sense of security when Jim and Pam are concerned or did they not want us to get too attached to Karen early on? Only time will tell I guess...
So, this whole Jim/Pam thing… I don’t think that either one of them is intentionally playing games or being mean or lying or being bitchy or whatever as I’ve read on many sites.
I think it’s really just all about self-preservation.
I just think that Jim has been trying very hard to move on with his life and get over Pam. He wasn’t sure about going back to Scranton because he knew that it would be awkward to have to face Pam again (I’m sure he’s a little embarrassed or whatever about what transpired) and it would also be hard to get over her if he had to work with her every day. His feelings didn’t just evaporate, even though he probably wishes that they had.
I think he really is just “sort of seeing� Karen. She seems nice enough, she’s funny, and she’s got a thing for him. So maybe he’s just trying to move on.
As for Pam, well… she was just so excited to have Jim back, but I don’t think that she ever really considered what would happen when he actually came back. Maybe she hoped things would go back to how they were before (having fun, etc) and that then, hopefully,… they could have that (Casino Night) parking lot conversation again.
Anyway, now Jim’s back and acting all distant because he doesn’t want them to slip back into their old ways because then he figures he’ll be right back in the same mess again and be miserable… I don’t think that he realizes that she broke up with Roy because of him… I know that some people say that it should be obvious to him, but after all of these years of disappointment, I can see him not daring to think it… and even though we all know that it’s obvious that she dumped Roy because of Jim, I think that maybe she just chickened out and couldn’t tell Jim that at the time… maybe she was afraid that it was already to late, because she stomped all over his heart… maybe she thought that she really wasn’t ready just yet… Jim MOVED away! – maybe she just felt like it was a little crappity of her to call him up and be all, “yeah, well, I know you moved away and all, but, I thought about it a little and now I think that maybe I like you.� … Jim was gone… I think that maybe SHE was just very busy trying to get over him, too. Maybe when she broke it off with Roy she just finally realized (thanks to Jim), that he was not the person for her and that if she was having ANY sort of feelings for anyone other than Roy, then she shouldn’t be marrying him.
I think that Pam was being very brave (for her) when she asked him if he wanted to grab a coffee. She’s pretty timid and I think that was a big thing for her. And she got shot down… he said that he was busy, but… it was one of excuses that you can tell is sort of… fake… he’s just trying to nicely turn her down… and then she starts seeing the little interactions with Karen (the chatting, the handing out of the gum, the hanging out in the parking lot) and I think her whole world starts to crash down around her. Because what’s worse than having Jim be far away? Having him right back under your nose, dating someone else. And knowing that YOU missed the boat. And I just think that now she has switched gears into full damage-control mode. “Nothing’s wrong! Everything’s great! We’re friends! We’ll always be friends! Great to have you back, pal!� and that’s also why she pretends that things WEREN’T awkward. Hey, they’re just buddies, right?! I don’t think that she’s being a bitch, I think that she’s just trying really hard to hide HER true feelings, and I think that THAT just sort of makes her come off sort of pinched and unfeeling.
Jim is confused and hurt by this because HE thinks that they ARE just friends, and he’s trying to smooth things out because he knows that things were weird… and now she’s pretending that she didn’t even notice how weird things were. So… now he’s just completely miserable… because now it seems like he’s imagining this weirdness and maybe now he thinks that he’s just made a fool of himself again by trying to smooth things out.
I think, though, that it will be VERY hard for them NOT to slip back into their old ways … picking on Dwight, making faces about Michael… I think that Jim will be the one trying not to do that because he doesn’t want to pick up where he thinks they left off.
Holy crap. I can’t believe how much I just wrote. And how much of it is unintelligible. Hmmph. Must. Get. A. Life.
I think it’s really just all about self-preservation.
I just think that Jim has been trying very hard to move on with his life and get over Pam. He wasn’t sure about going back to Scranton because he knew that it would be awkward to have to face Pam again (I’m sure he’s a little embarrassed or whatever about what transpired) and it would also be hard to get over her if he had to work with her every day. His feelings didn’t just evaporate, even though he probably wishes that they had.
I think he really is just “sort of seeing� Karen. She seems nice enough, she’s funny, and she’s got a thing for him. So maybe he’s just trying to move on.
As for Pam, well… she was just so excited to have Jim back, but I don’t think that she ever really considered what would happen when he actually came back. Maybe she hoped things would go back to how they were before (having fun, etc) and that then, hopefully,… they could have that (Casino Night) parking lot conversation again.
Anyway, now Jim’s back and acting all distant because he doesn’t want them to slip back into their old ways because then he figures he’ll be right back in the same mess again and be miserable… I don’t think that he realizes that she broke up with Roy because of him… I know that some people say that it should be obvious to him, but after all of these years of disappointment, I can see him not daring to think it… and even though we all know that it’s obvious that she dumped Roy because of Jim, I think that maybe she just chickened out and couldn’t tell Jim that at the time… maybe she was afraid that it was already to late, because she stomped all over his heart… maybe she thought that she really wasn’t ready just yet… Jim MOVED away! – maybe she just felt like it was a little crappity of her to call him up and be all, “yeah, well, I know you moved away and all, but, I thought about it a little and now I think that maybe I like you.� … Jim was gone… I think that maybe SHE was just very busy trying to get over him, too. Maybe when she broke it off with Roy she just finally realized (thanks to Jim), that he was not the person for her and that if she was having ANY sort of feelings for anyone other than Roy, then she shouldn’t be marrying him.
I think that Pam was being very brave (for her) when she asked him if he wanted to grab a coffee. She’s pretty timid and I think that was a big thing for her. And she got shot down… he said that he was busy, but… it was one of excuses that you can tell is sort of… fake… he’s just trying to nicely turn her down… and then she starts seeing the little interactions with Karen (the chatting, the handing out of the gum, the hanging out in the parking lot) and I think her whole world starts to crash down around her. Because what’s worse than having Jim be far away? Having him right back under your nose, dating someone else. And knowing that YOU missed the boat. And I just think that now she has switched gears into full damage-control mode. “Nothing’s wrong! Everything’s great! We’re friends! We’ll always be friends! Great to have you back, pal!� and that’s also why she pretends that things WEREN’T awkward. Hey, they’re just buddies, right?! I don’t think that she’s being a bitch, I think that she’s just trying really hard to hide HER true feelings, and I think that THAT just sort of makes her come off sort of pinched and unfeeling.
Jim is confused and hurt by this because HE thinks that they ARE just friends, and he’s trying to smooth things out because he knows that things were weird… and now she’s pretending that she didn’t even notice how weird things were. So… now he’s just completely miserable… because now it seems like he’s imagining this weirdness and maybe now he thinks that he’s just made a fool of himself again by trying to smooth things out.
I think, though, that it will be VERY hard for them NOT to slip back into their old ways … picking on Dwight, making faces about Michael… I think that Jim will be the one trying not to do that because he doesn’t want to pick up where he thinks they left off.
Holy crap. I can’t believe how much I just wrote. And how much of it is unintelligible. Hmmph. Must. Get. A. Life.
Lola,
Not unintelligible. Intelligible. Please, do not get a life. ;)
Though . . . I think I differ slightly on your take on what Jim was trying to do with Pam in that last scene. I agree that part of what he was doing was trying to somehow smooth things out between them. But I also feel like, whether he knew it or not, he was begging Pam to give him . . . . something . . . some reason to feel that things are NOT how they were, that Pam does want him.
I guess I'm saying that I believe he DOES know that there is more there. In other words, I believe that he knows Pam to the extent that he knows that she is not able to be completely honest with herself. Though I certainly agree that he's trying to protect himself from further hurt, and from going back into that netherland that he was in with her all that time.
Not unintelligible. Intelligible. Please, do not get a life. ;)
Though . . . I think I differ slightly on your take on what Jim was trying to do with Pam in that last scene. I agree that part of what he was doing was trying to somehow smooth things out between them. But I also feel like, whether he knew it or not, he was begging Pam to give him . . . . something . . . some reason to feel that things are NOT how they were, that Pam does want him.
I guess I'm saying that I believe he DOES know that there is more there. In other words, I believe that he knows Pam to the extent that he knows that she is not able to be completely honest with herself. Though I certainly agree that he's trying to protect himself from further hurt, and from going back into that netherland that he was in with her all that time.
God. I am embarrassed by how serious I've gotten analyzing the inner lives and motivations of two characters on a television comedy. It sound like I'm talking about some great work of literature.
It's ridiculous! (But only when I do it. It's completely not ridiculous when anyone else does it, of course.)
It's ridiculous! (But only when I do it. It's completely not ridiculous when anyone else does it, of course.)
Lola,
Maybe.
But your first seven paragraphs are some of the best Jim/Pam insight that I've read. And, I do think what you wrote about the parking lot scene has truth. I just think there's more. But that more is elusive. I feel like what I wrote must be true, but it all came from my interpretation of Jim's mostly nonverbal reaction . . . not that verbal reactions are any more reliable in content -- just look at Pam's -- but, anyway, I can't be sure.
It sure seemed that way though.
Plus, I suppose it's not just his reaction at that moment. I never felt that Jim had no idea whether Pam had feelings for him. I feel like the question was never really "did she have feelings for him," but "what would she do about them."
Anyway.
Maybe.
But your first seven paragraphs are some of the best Jim/Pam insight that I've read. And, I do think what you wrote about the parking lot scene has truth. I just think there's more. But that more is elusive. I feel like what I wrote must be true, but it all came from my interpretation of Jim's mostly nonverbal reaction . . . not that verbal reactions are any more reliable in content -- just look at Pam's -- but, anyway, I can't be sure.
It sure seemed that way though.
Plus, I suppose it's not just his reaction at that moment. I never felt that Jim had no idea whether Pam had feelings for him. I feel like the question was never really "did she have feelings for him," but "what would she do about them."
Anyway.
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